Ken: Thanks a lot plenty to possess sharing your pursuit with our company

Many thanks for the fresh new offer that we had not viewed in advance of

I am not sure should you have accessibility Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or perhaps not, because it are created due to the fact a research to have People in the us with colonial forefathers from Plantagenet ancestry. The guy provides among his proofs that Joanna was this new mom from Gwladus Ddu that Llewelyn provided the new qualities of Knighton and you will Norton castles from inside the Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer when he and you may Gwladus had been partnered. It could was illegal to have Llewelyn to give Joanna’s assets to an illegitimate child (or individual that was not an infant regarding Joanna). Brand new features regarding Norton and you may Knighton remained regarding Mortimer household members thereafter. The new estimate are, “When new King provide House in order to a man with a woman out-of his kindred from inside the honest matrimony, therefore the woman dyeth in the place of thing, the person about Leaders instance should maybe not wait having his existence, while the woman was the cause of the new gift.” This basically means, this new characteristics might have reverted to this new top before it might have been provided to an infant who was simply maybe not Joanna’s.

Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t get access to the fresh Plantaganet Origins by the Doug Richardson, but kissbrides.com web sites did have access to the many conversations involving him and you may his theories with other genealogists (specific to possess him, but many including up against). In my opinion, while i stated in my personal early in the day papers, one just what swings they for my situation(Joanna as the mother off Gwladus), is the transfer of characteristics your discuss to help you Ralph de Mortimer through to their ed a couple of the youngsters ‘John’ and you may ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose in the event the Gwladus was actually the brand new ded her children ergo. Despite the objections between the eminent genealogists We speak about over, there is certainly a general consensus you to Gwladus Ddu are fairly identified as the daughter out-of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth from the Joanna, child (then legitimised) regarding John, Queen off The united kingdomt. I’d like to bring it opportunity to accept Sharon (in the a contact for me) that Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian try from the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and thus are blood cousin to help you Gruffudd. I legs it partially to your today’s record utilized in ‘Royal and other Historical emails Illustrative of your reign off Henry 111,’ edited by Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. Towards the profiles 500-503 ‘s the transcript regarding exclusive page dated Marshall, Earl away from Pembroke, so you’re able to King Henry 111. Within this page, Marshall talks about their siege of your castles off Crum, Kilmore and O’Realy. He lists the individuals the guy found in the castle O’Realy whenever they surrendered, they incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre ainsi que matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m told that this ensures that i have right here Gwenllian, child out-of Prince llywelyn, whom seems to be named ‘sister out of Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd as brand new illegitimate young buck regarding Llywelyn, it’s pulled you to definitely ‘de- patre et matre’ implies that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd were full blood brother and you may aunt. Got Gwenllian come Joanna’s daughter hence Queen Henry’s niece, undoubtedly Marshall will have stated thereon facts? It inability from de Lacy’s partner given that king’s niece, are pulled as close certain evidence you to Gwenllian wasn’t the newest daughter of king’s brother Joanna.

These services were element of Joanna’s maritagium out of their particular dad King John

Ken: Many thanks for that mention of the Gwenllian. I’m most certainly not an expert genealogist, however, I actually do a number of browse on my own traces. I do believe some of the “pros” are extremely jealous and you may crazy each and every almost every other (at least it seems that method in certain of everything it article). You can find points that the audience is not probably learn with full confidence throughout the members of brand new MA as they didn’t continue public information instance i perform now, therefore genealogists and you can historians need to use their finest judgment when you look at the sorting something out. Actually, public information was a fairly “new” design – many claims in the usa failed to keep suggestions of births and deaths before the very early 1900’s. I belong to numerous origin communities where I’ve had in order to show 11 otherwise twelve generations, and you may trust in me it is not easy. And so i really delight in the difficulty away from contrasting MA ancestors. (And also the unfortunate matter is that the suggestions that are offered into MA try of your royalty and you can nobility – absolutely nothing at all towards common some body).